Class 13: WED MAR 04

34 Responses to Class 13: WED MAR 04

  1. nayr79 says:

    Today’s class started with discussing how a 300-word argument in a 1000-word paper is a terrible idea. If 700 of your words were crossed out, you did something wrong. A goal of the research paper project is to engage the rebuttals to your position. Do you believe a hot dog is a sandwich? If so, try not to say you’re right, but say the naysayers are wrong. The class also went over how a references page should look and what it should include. We were told not to use the (author, year, page) type of citing. We should be using the PTAQS method. It stands for Publication, Title, Author, Quotation, and Said. Including publication is optional. The Said part is for the word says or discusses, or agrees with, or thinks, are other words of the like to introduce a quotation. The example we used in class was In the Kids Today(P) article, “The Hidden Child,”(T) Dr. Benjamin Spock(A) says,(S) “children are creative.” (Q) – no parentheses or page numbers or anything needed. All that’s needed now is the citation in the references page. These in-text references to other works can’t be arranged in any order (as long as it works!)

  2. j6128 says:

    What happened
    References list
    Informal citation
    Portfolio task
    definition/categorical argument

    What I learned
    It’s not just a research paper it is a position paper
    Quality over quantity when it comes to writing
    Find a way to make a 3000 word paper into 1000 words- make it clear and brief
    The goal is to communicate your idea as brief as possible
    Need to have enough ideas to make a good 1000 word paper
    The process of editing should be eliminating access and getting down to the essential
    1000 word causal argument- reasons why the situation exists, and promises of the future, cause and effect cycle/relationship
    1000 paper is a short argument rebuttal- answer critics, name the obvious rebuttal to your own argument, casting it in a new light
    March 11th is when the first paper is due
    Apa citations- use easy bib, prof search and citation machine or Ref Works
    Cite only the information you used in the essay
    References page help find original source material
    Use hyperlinks in references page
    Professor will check to see if the source was used accurately
    Need to be accurate and honest
    Need at least five sources
    Informal citation technique= need name of publication, title, author, quote/paraphrase and said language
    Italicize publications
    Ex: In the Kids Today article, “The Hidden Child,” Dr. Benjamin Spock says, “Children are Creative.”
    Periods and commas always goes inside the quotation marks
    There are not () after informal citations
    When paraphrasing you need the words “says that”- indicates that you are making a claim
    Have to start a quote with a capital letter
    Need to state author’s whole name when first referencing them, after the first reference just use their last name

  3. samtheman1448 says:

    Professor explains to the class how to set up our reference list. He explains that we can use bibliography generators such as easybib. Professor also tells us that the citations do not have to be perfect when it comes to small things such as commas and periods. Professor would like for us to provide a link in the citation so he can click on them and find things easier.
    After this, Professor goes over how we can write our citations in our paper without using parenthesis. Just state the author, title, quotation or said language. It seems to be easy to understand and a lot less complicated than putting parenthesis in my paper.

  4. sixers103 says:

    Professor started off class by talking about how we should look to make our papers specific and have enough ideas to not only reach the word count but at the same time explaining our topic to the max. Professor talked about the references aspect that is a must when it comes to our next assignment and each reference must be specific. The Rowan Library has tools that can allow you to make a citation. The said language is one of the most important factors that you need to incorporate in a citation. Went over multiple examples of informal citations and discussed in depth about each example. Talked about wether a definition is a type of argument.

  5. harp03 says:

    Class Notes 03/04/2020

    -Better to take as much information as you can and make it as concise as you can
    -If there is only 300 words/1000 that are important/useful, 700 may be crossed out by the professor
    -Process of editing should be eliminating excess information
    -You will likely, and should, EASILY have more than 1000 words by the time you are done with essay 1 (if you don’t, you need to gather more ideas and/or change your hypothesis)

    1st 1000-word essay will be a definition argument
    -Define different ideas and concepts that need to be defined for the reader’s understanding
    -May need to revise after writing the other two essays if new terms are brought up

    2nd 1000-word essay will be a causal argument
    -Cause and effect relationship within your thesis

    3rd 1000-word argument will be a rebuttal argument
    -Nobody will be persuaded if you don’t anticipate and answer their rebuttals

    -Use reference list to find original source material (quotes, paraphrases, etc)
    -EasyBib, Citation Machine, ETurabian

    Informal Citations:
    -DO NOT do, “……….” (author, year, pg.#)
    More common way to do it would be….
    -Publication: Kids Today
    -Title: “The Hidden Child”
    -Author: “Dr. Benjamin Spock
    -Quotes: “Children Are Creative”
    -S: Said Language

    Sentence: In the Kids Today article, "The Hidden Child," Dr. Benjamin Spock says children are creative.

    Periods and commas ALWAYS go inside the parentheses!
    Periods and commas ALWAYS go inside the parentheses!
    Periods and commas ALWAYS go inside the parentheses!

    -If paraphrasing, must also include the word "that" (e.g. author says THAT…)
    says, "CAPITAL LETTER…."
    claims that "DOESNT HAVE TO BE CAPITAL…."

  6. gossipgirl3801 says:

    3/4/20- In class today we started talking about our portfolio task due on March 11th, which is a definition/categorical argument short essay of 1,000 words having to do with our own research thesis. The 1,000 words count should not be wasted by turning a 300 words argument into 1,000 words, professor suggests writing 2,000 words at first using all information and then cutting it down to 1,000 words ad ideas, editing is key. By the time we are to write our 3,000 words essay we will already have 3,000 words collected from our three 1,0000 words essays that we can put together with minimal editing. We will need to cite sources for our definition argument so in class we will be learning how to make a reference list. We were introduced to informal citations by writing a fake example to help us understand how to make our own by sharing the author, the title, the quotation or paraphrase(you need to write “that” in front of the sentence if so), the publication, and what the author said. Period and commas always, always, always, always, always go inside the parentheses! We did an exercise where we had to fix the flawed mechanics of some informal citations and also write one of our own citations.

  7. alyse816 says:

    Instead of having a 1000 word paper become a 300 word paper, make a 2000 word paper become a 1000 word paper.
    Make sure you have enough material in that 1000 word paper so it flows and you have a good argument and your not just filling words to get to the word count criteria.
    We are using references for AP format, but remember that it is works cited, to use to find the source that was named earlier in the paper
    For the references, you need the publication, title, author, the quote, and the said language (says, said, according to). Unless you are paraphrasing you use the word that after said language.
    Italicize the publication, quotation marks around the title, and quotes around the said language.

    • davidbdale says:

      Not sure I understand this: Unless you are paraphrasing you use the word that after said language.
      No quotes around the said language. But quotes around the quoted language.

  8. shaquilleoatmeal2250 says:


    – If your having trouble getting too 1000 words for your essay there is most definitely a lack of research and information in your paper, but if you have trouble fitting only 1000 words into your essay you most likely have enough information
    – You rather struggle with fitting a large amount into a small amount rather than a small amount that you have to stretch into a large amount
    – Need only the references that we use added to our reference page
    – Using Rowan library sources already provides a citation for the reference
    – Style: APA
    – Period and comma always inside quotes no matter what.
    – No intext citations
    – Use more modern research paper informal citations…
    Ex: In the Kids Today article, “The Hidden Child,” Dr. Benjamin Spock says, “Children are creative.”
    – Use:
    P – Kids Today
    T – “The hidden child”
    A – Dr. Benjamin Spock
    Q – “children are creative”
    S – said language
    – Can paraphrase by exchanging “that” with the quotation marks
    – Can use this method in multiple different orders that will work the same
    – Always capitalize first word of quote unless its after a word like that

    • davidbdale says:

      This is confusing: – Need only the references that we use added to our reference page
      What I meant to communicate is that while you might refer to ten sources in preparing your 1000-word essay, your References section will identify only the 3 (or however many) you actually cite in your argument by naming the Author, for example, or the Title.

    • davidbdale says:

      For clarity’s sake, I made your Kids Today publication citation italic.

      You can actually do this in Reply fields with a little html.

  9. bloomingmystery says:

    March 4th Notes:
    -Figuring out an objection and answering it, gets you to an end goal by persuading someone to see your side and how it may be better.
    -Websites such as EasyBib and Citation Machine help to create citations for your reference page.
    -Use what is in your reference pages in the correct way. Quote them or paraphrase within your paper, don’t just put them at the end when they were never referenced in the first place.
    -A good citation should do the following: identify the author and title of what is used, includes a quotation, and also should have said language (ie. states, insists, claims, ect).
    -Period and commas always go inside of the quotation marks.
    -A complete informal citation example: In the Kids Today article, “The Hidden Child,” Dr. Benjamin Spock says, “Children are creative.”
    -These informal citations can be changed as long as all the parts are there. You could start with the quote or the author. It does not matter what starts off the citation as long as all of the parts are there.

  10. Cleo says:

    class notes:
    -categorial arguments- position papers differ from research papers because you are taking a stand on the issue.

    in text citation: Publication, title, author, quote, said language.

  11. stripedsweater21 says:

    We talked about the specifics of a reference list; it includes those only that we cite- using a direct quote or paraphrasing an idea to strengthen our argument. It doesn’t include every source we have consulted. Hiding our sources and presenting an idea as our own is not accepted. Citing a reference will strengthen our argument as well. The share of references must be honest and accurate.
    For informal citations, we talked about TAQS: Title, author’s name, quotation and said language.
    It’s not needed, but sometimes we would add a publication such as Kids Today or another journal cite.
    Example: In the Kids Today article, “The Hidden Child,” Dr. Benjamin Spock says, “Children are creative.”
    We then talked about ways a definition can be an argument. In a simple example, one can have a different definition of what a college graduate is and can argue what degree is needed for that title.

    • davidbdale says:

      Ordinarily I object to “talked about” language, Striped, but both times you use it as a preamble to a specific description or example, so I withdraw my initial objection.

      For clarity’s sake, I italicized your Kids Today references. You can actually do this while writing Notes with a little html.

  12. a1175 says:

    -when you’re starting to add fluff to a paper to reach a word count, it means you don’t have enough ideas
    -the 3 short arguments will all be 1,000 words and will accumulate to be the final paper
    – reference page doesn’t matter as much as citing sources in the actual writing to show you’re using someone else’s ideas
    -citations will be more informal
    -citations should include publication, title, author, quote and said language
    -commas and periods belong inside quotations
    -if paraphrasing, use the word “that” before stated what the author claimed
    -definitions can be arguable

  13. bmdpiano says:


    References List:
    – aka works cited
    – use citation machine or easy bib to create a reference list in APA format
    – The most important aspect is to make sure that the source can be accessed through the references

    Informal Citation:
    – Do NOT use the (author, year, page #) format
    – For a citation we need the publication, article title, author, quote, and says language combining this information in order to cite it.
    – Ex. In the Kids Today article, “The Hidden Child,” Dr. Benjamin Spock says, “Children are creative.”
    – You can order these any way. For example, you can start with the quote instead of the publication.
    – Quotes are not always needed. It can be a paraphrased claim but the word that is needed after the says language.
    – When quoting, the first word in a quote should be capitalized only if the citation begins with the quote or in the “claims:” format. Every other time if the quote is in the middle of the sentence or there is a paraphrasing, the first word in the quote can be lowercase.

    Definition/Categorical Argument:
    – Defining in an argument
    – Ex. A tree is on your neighbors side, but it hangs over into your yard with peaches growing. Can you take the peaches or is that stealing? This is where the definition of whether the tree is partly your property or not.

    • davidbdale says:

      Good work, Piano. I love the super-specificity of some of your notes.
      For clarity’s sake, I italicized several words throughout, including the publication title Kids Today.. You can actually do this while writing notes with a little html.

  14. taxmanmaxwell says:

    Today our professor spoke to us about our research paper and mentioned how his preference was for editing down a sizable rough draft instead of adding filler to meet guidelines. As an example, for a 3000-word paper it would be better to write a 6000-word rough draft and edit it down, than it would to write 1500 words and add filler. We were then instructed that our 1000-word definition argument would be due before class in one week. Our references for our argument are not meant to include works we are influenced by. Instead, we are to provide sources for paraphrasing, named authors, and references within our argument. Then we received this example in-text citation:
    Publisher: Kids Today
    Title: The Hidden Child
    Author: Dr. Benjamin Spock
    Quote: “Children are creative”
    S: Said language
    In the Kids Today article, “The Hidden Child,” Dr. Benjamin Spock says, “Children are creative.”
    The publisher is italicized, and the professor told us that the punctuation ALWAYS goes before the closing parentheses. We need to ensure we use “said language,” instructing our readers what the author did. Its also important to rearrange the PTAQS usage so that our writing does not become to formulaic. Further examples are provided in the link provided in todays agenda.
    the first example is: Daniel Flath, in his essay, “Boylan’s Folly,” claims that “boys can’t learn from women.”

    • davidbdale says:

      Very nice, Taxman. You covered everything from “brevity and clarity” through “informal citation.” The only thing missing is a note or two about Definition Argument.

      For clarity’s sake, I italicized Kids Today for you. You can actually do this while writing notes with a little html.

      One correction. You say

      punctuation ALWAYS goes before the closing parentheses.

      But in truth

      Periods and Commas (not all punctuation) ALWAYS goes before the closing QUOTATION MARK.

      Recurring punctuation issue: you neglect needed apostrophes (two in what follows):

      It’s also important to rearrange the PTAQS usage so that our writing does not become too formulaic. Further examples are provided in the link provided in today’s agenda.

      Very good notes though.

  15. rose1029 says:

    3/4/20 Class Notes:
    What Happened:
    Discussed our next Portfolio Task: Definition/Categorical Argument
    Reference List
    Informal Citation
    In-depth discussion of a Definition/Categorical Argument

    What I learned:
    – Some arguments are only worth 500 words when the assignment asks for a 1000 word essay.
    – Take as much information as possible and communicate as clearly and briefly as possible
    – Try to have a draft that is longer than needed so you can cut down on the necessary pieces in order to get the required word count (getting down to the essential)
    – To be a good arguer, you have to assume the questions that are going to try to refuse your claims and answer them in your writing.
    – Reference Lists are different than a Bibliography – references are only the resources you cited in your writing (even paraphrasing) A Bibliography is a list of every source including the ones you did not cite but developed ideas off of, that was used in your paper
    – Cares more about the link within the reference, and should be able to find the quotes in those articles, that you claim have originated from there
    – Inserting links into he source is important
    – Citation techniques:
    “Quote”(Author, Year, Page number) → Don’t use this
    Publication: Kids Today (NYT, etc)
    Title: “The Hidden Childhood”
    Author: Dr. Benjamin Spock
    Quote: “Children are more creative”
    Said Language
    In the Kids Today article, “The Hidden Child,” Dr. Benjamin Spock says, “Children are creative.”
    – “Children are creative,” according to Dr. Benjamin Spock, author of “The Hidden Childhood” in Kids Today.
    – In “The Hidden Child,” which appeared in Kids Today, Dr.Benjamin Spock says “children are creative.
    – Dr. Benjamin Spock said “Children are creative” in his article in Kids Today, called “The Hidden Childhood”
    – When you paraphrase you can use “says THAT” → replaces the need to for quotation marks.
    – There are many different ways to use other people’s quotes in your writing while giving them the necessary credit they need
    – What you consider to be true may not be true to the definition of the word/phrase and therefore is something that can spark an argument

    • davidbdale says:

      I love the super-specificity of your Notes, Rose.
      For clarity’s sake, I italicized Kids Today several times. You can actually do this while writing Replies with a little html.

      I truly appreciate that you left me samples of informal citation. It gives me a chance to make some small corrections. Let me know if any of them confuse you.
      – “Children are creative,” according to Dr. Benjamin Spock, author of “The Hidden Childhood,” in Kids Today. [added a comma]
      – In “The Hidden Child,” which appeared in Kids Today, Dr. Benjamin Spock says, “Children are creative.” [added a comma, capitalized Children, and added the closing quotation mark] [If you prefer, you could use “that” as in: Dr. Benjamin Spock says that “children are creative.”]
      – Dr. Benjamin Spock said, “Children are creative,” in his article in Kids Today, called “The Hidden Childhood.” [added a comma after said and another after creative, and the final period]

      I hope that helps and doesn’t further confuse you.

  16. tenere84 says:

    Notes 3/04

    – Synthesize as much information as you can to create a 1000-word essay.
    – If you had to cut the word count of your essay from 1000 to 300, then you’re doing something wrong; 70% of your essay was filled with wasted words.
    – Define concepts and ideas in such a way that the reader can understand them.
    – Your essay may need to be revised a few times after the first draft is posted, and that’s okay.

    References List
    – All of your essays will have to include a References list. A References list is different from a Bibliography in that it identifies only the works you’ve cited (through direct quotation, summary, or paraphrase) in this particular essay.
    – If you get your sources through the Rowan library databases, you can use ProfSearch or RefWorks to produce automated References citation.
    – Easier tools for citation are generators such as EasyBib, Citation Machine, and ETurabian.

    Informal Citation

    – The old way (DON’T DO): “. . . .” (author, year, page number)
    – Periods and commas always go inside the parenthesis.

    Essentials of a Good Citation:
    – They identify the AUTHOR
    – They identify the TITLE of the article, essay, or story
    – They contain a QUOTATION (or a PARAPHRASE instead, without quotation marks)
    – They also have SAID language (or BELIEVES, CLAIMS, ASSERTS, INSISTS, etc.)

    An example:
    P (Publication) – Kids Today
    T (Title) – The Hidden Child
    A (Author) – Dr. Benjamin Spock
    Q (Quote) – “Children are creative.”
    S (Said Language)

    In an essay: In the Kids Today (P) article, “The Hidden Child” (T), Dr. Benjamin Spock (A) says (S), “Children are creative” (Q).

    Flawed Mechanics

    Fixed sentences that previously had errors:
    1. In his essay, “Boylan’s Folly,” Daniel Flath says that “boys can’t learn from women.”
    2. The author of “Boylan’s Folly,” Daniel Flath, claims: “Boys can’t learn from women.”
    3. In the essay, “Boylan’s Folly,” by Daniel Flath, “Boys can’t learn from women,” is said.

    Portfolio Task

    Definition/Categorical Argument
    – You’ll need to cite and put in a References list at least two sources for this 1000-page argument, which may or may not have already been described in your Proposal+5.
    – How can a definition be an argument? It can redefine something that was perceived to have a different definition, it can categorize something whose category has been repeatedly disputed, it can attempt to clear up a muddied definition so a proper debate can be had, etc.

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