Class 10: MON OCT 07

Visual Riddle: Impossible Trees

Too Late to Meme

First, you might need to know who Christopher Walken is. He has one of Hollywood’s most recognizable faces. But it never occurred to me that he resembled a famous actress until I saw
a particular image of him as a young man.

Writing Advice

declaration-of-independence-1

This is a reminder that your essay is, by definition, an expression of your opinion. Your goal as a persuasive writer should be, through the authority of your voice and the soundness of your reasoning, to convince your readers that they are reading facts, not opinions. Reminding them that you’re just another knucklehead who read a book called “Declarations for Dummies” undercuts your authority.

Click here to see how constantly qualifying your claims turns a Declaration of Independence into a Weak Suggestion of Independence.

Housekeeping—Feedback Please

  1. Want to scoot to the top of the Feedback Please queue? Leave a Reply on your post detailing the TYPE of feedback you would most like to receive.
  2. Want to continue to receive feedback after your beloved professor has already demonstrated a desire to overwhelm you with free advice? RESPOND to the feedback you receive.

Specific Claims Demo

To reinforce the superiority of making specific and arguable claims over broad language summaries that merely sketch the outlines of the content of a message, follow the link to a comparison of good and bad versions of Proposal+5 descriptions of “Essential Content” and “How I Will Use It” entries.

The Lasik Claims

A step-by-step examination of several claim types and their relative value in making arguments to specific audiences, using a young woman’s desire for lasik surgery as the subject matter.

The arguments Amanda makes to her parents may persuade them to pay for her lasik surgery, but they would certainly not convince her insurance provider to do so. What claims could she make to the insurer to persuade them to cover her costs?

  • Reply below how Amanda’s argument is shaped by her audience.

PTSD Claims Advice

Sample Claims Analysis:
Consider these claims, some obvious, others hidden

When Caleb was finally screened for the severity of his TBI, Brannan says he got the second-worst score in the whole 18-county Gulf Coast VA system, which serves more than 50,000 veterans.

— “finally screened” means that according to Brannan or the author or both, Caleb should have been screened long before. It suggests that the VA was negligent in delaying his testing.
— “the severity of his TBI” clearly contains the claim that he in fact has some degree of TBI. The fact that he hadn’t until then been screened for it means nobody knew for sure that he did, but the author makes that claim.
— “Brannan says” means that the author has not independently verified Caleb’s score or where it ranked against all other screenings.
— “the second-worst score in the whole 18-county Gulf Coast VA system” is offered as Brannan’s claim that her husband is suffering more than almost anyone. Considering her vested interest in promoting this perspective, we have to be at least a little suspicious of the ranking.
— “which serves more than 50,000 veterans” gives the impression that Caleb was hurt worse than 50,000 other veterans. But let’s be clear. Many of these 50,000 will not have served in combat at all. Many will not have had active engagement with enemy troops on the battlefield. Many of those who did see active fighting will not have been near explosive devices. So we’re not comparing him to 50,000 TBI sufferers.

Protocol/Mechanics

  • The Recent Comments section of the sidebar should look representative of the most interactive members of the class. Success in this course means engaging in the recursive process of writing (incorporating the ideas of others, synthesizing them with your own, sharing the results with the World Laboratory of Ideas, and suffering—I mean celebrating—the reactions of others, incorporating those new ideas, and so on).
Recursive, Cancel Culture
  • This sort of conversation should be happening in the feedback cycles for your White Paper.
  • When it does, your avatar will find a regular spot in the “Recent Comments” section of the blog, where it belongs as often as possible.
  • Do not wait for your Professor to initiate these dialogues.
  • However, in many cases, your Professor has already initiated these dialogues and is impatiently awaiting your engagement.
  • When you feel lost, need clarification, want to bounce a new idea off of someone, need help finding a source (or knowing what terms to search for), drop a comment on your White Paper or on whichever of your posts is most appropriate.

Research Tips

I can’t find any sources!

Tiger Buick

Tips for Better Research

Models of Good Purposeful Summaries

I’m often critical, some would say too critical, and sometimes neglect to celebrate the best of the writing I see in my classes, so today I’m recommending that if you want to study some examples of beautiful Purposeful Summary submissions, you should navigate over to those turned in by Puffer, MaxxPayne, and HDT1817.

Notice that these models are good, like examples of bad writing, in different ways.

    • HDT is the cleanest example of a compliant submission: long enough to be substantial but brief and clear in all aspects.

    • MaxxPayne has written at greater length, but without being wordy or irrelevant. If you don’t recognize the source material, it came from a Professor post in the category: Counterintuitivities.

    • Puffer has written summaries just long enough to qualify as complete, but check out the clarity of the claims about what’s counterintuitive.

Hypothesis Illustrated:
Self-Directed Lecture (with Task)

  • Brief Introduction
  • USAID tested the theory that direct aid to the poor would improve childhood nutrition more than trying to engineer nutrition programs for them, on the theory that the poor know what to do; they simply lack the resources.
  • Link to “The ‘Give Directly’ Hypothesis
  • Contains a Brief “Discussion Exercise

Punctuation Pro Tip

    • WRONG: Notice that, like examples of bad writing, these models are good in different ways.

    • WRONG: Notice that these models, like examples of bad writing, are good in different ways.

    • WRONG: Notice that these models are good, like examples of bad writing, in different ways.

    • RIGHT: Notice that, as bad writing is not all bad for the same reason, these models of good writing are good in different ways.

Hypothesis Hint

A Good Hypothesis Described

    • Essay writing is like the scientific process, designed to test hypotheses with experiments, not prove preconceptions.
        • Research is the targeted search for evidence to test a hypothesis.
        • “Analyze Data and Draw Conclusions” (not “Prove Hypothesis”) is the last step.

      •  

The “Give Directly” Hypothesis

A Good Hypothesis Illustrated

    • USAID tested the theory that direct aid to the poor would improve childhood nutrition more than trying to engineer nutrition programs for them, on the theory that the poor know what to do; they simply lack the resources.

  •  

55 Responses to Class 10: MON OCT 07

  1. lobsterman's avatar lobsterman says:

    class notes 10/7

    Watched videos of a man who paints over trees and makes it blend in the background, we can only see the illusion from a certain perspective. Hodges used this a metaphor for persuasive writing, we need to deliver our arguments from a certain perspective to get the exact point across.

    Water down self evident truths- things like “in my opinion” and “it seems to me” make the argument less effective. State your claims like they are fact (even if they might not be). Make declarations not suggestions.

    Stop using “talks about”, be more specific and summarize it in a way that highlights the meaning.

  2. yardie's avatar yardie says:

    10/7/2024 Class Notes

    • Visual Riddle: Impossible Trees, Presenting the material with your audience, choose the perspective you want your material to be viewed from so the illusion of reality looks exactly how you want it to look to them.
    • Persuasive essay: don’t use (What if, It seems to me, I believe, and In my opinion) Instead declare your claims 
    • Pathos: Appeals to the audience’s emotions, trying to make them feel sympathetic or angry.For example, an author might use vivid language, metaphors, or personal stories to evoke an emotion from the reader.  
    • Logos: Appeals to the audience’s reason, building up logical arguments. For example, an author might use logic and evidence, or a startling statistic, to appeal to the audience’s intellect.
    • Ethos: Appeals to the speaker’s authority or credibility, making the audience more likely to trust them. For example, an author might establish their credibility by stating their experience or occupation.
  3. Softball1321's avatar Softball1321 says:

    Class Notes – Softball1321

    • The painting of the trees is a way of persuasive writing. (You want your material to be viewed from so that all of the differences disappear)
    • Not gonna use the phrases “What if, in my opinion, it seems to me, don’t you think, I believe…” in research essay.
    • Make factual claims in research essay.
    • Required to ask for feedback on the definition argument. (due next wed.)
    • Summarize specific subjects of the matter in hypothesis.
    • When you make claims with different audiences, they have different needs and expectations, so make different arguments. (Pathos, logos, ethos).
    • Types of Claims: categorical, definitional, consequential, resemblance, evaluation, proposal.
    • davidbdale's avatar davidbdale says:

      You seem to get it all, and if 3/3 is your goal, you can probably continue to achieve it without additional effort. But you’re capable of 4/3 if it appeals to you. Just do more to convince me that you’re absorbing more than this work indicates, Softball.

      Grade 3/3

  4. ChefRat's avatar ChefRat says:

    Class Notes 10.7.24

    Writing advice

    Having a personal essay is how you express your opinion, the main topic of discussion is how your wording is chosen. Strong claims of your opinion need to be made, opposed to watered down, unsure statements, “I believe” “it seems like”, etc.

    Whatever strong claim you need to express to your audience, you need to express as if it were already proven. It should be such common knowledge that your audience needs to act as if, “wow I should’ve known that”.

    Feedback

    Feel free to request for feedback at any point during your writing, specifically request if its needed asap.

    more writing advice!

    What does it mean to “talk about” your topic? It should not mean to say your evidence/article WILL support your statement. What the audience understands from this is that you will get there, you’re not sure, this will help back your “maybe claim” up. What you should do is specify your exact subject and how your evidence directly proves this.

    The eye correction example is provided about how you would propose your idea to two very different audiences. Your parents or your insurance company, it’s important to make logical, ethical and pathos claims to the audience it best suits. Why? The same reason you would write it out at all, you are attempting to convince someone your subject is appealing and something they can agree with.

    example claims with reasoning:
    “categorical claims, is x a y?”
    “definitional claims, what is a y?”
    “consequential claims, does x cause y?”
    “resemblance claim, is x like y”

    And so on and so forth.

    • davidbdale's avatar davidbdale says:

      Good in parts, weak in others, but complete enough overall, ChefRat.

      I thought we covered the rule about Periods and Commas belonging Inside the Quotation Marks ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS.

      Strong claims of your opinion need to be made, opposed to watered down, unsure statements, “I believe” “it seems like”, etc.

      It should be such common knowledge that your audience needs to act as if, “wow I should’ve known that”.

      —it seems like,” etc.
      —I should’ve known that.”

      Grade 3/3

  5. GOAT81's avatar GOAT81 says:
    • The artwork which took background place forward
    • “Prosecutors block access to DNA Testing for inmates” – reopening the case
    • PTSD claims Advice “finally screened” The claim which output comes as Evaluation
  6. imaginary.persona's avatar imaginary.persona says:

    10/07/24

    What Happened:

    • Tree painting creating the illusion of looking through the tree with some artwork
      • Gold isn’t a color
    • Carefully handle the material you’re writing 
    • Scarlet Johanson and Christopher Walken look alike 
    • How do you water down self-evident truths
    • Personal Assessment Worksheet
    • PTSD Claim Advice

    What I got:

    • Present the reader with all the material they need to see the world only from YOUR perspective, where only your perspective makes sense
    • Having a unique perspective
    • Making a strong suggestion, a declaration, a claim (of a fact) 

    What I still have Questions about:

  7. Class notes- figure8clementine

    -dehumanization of language that makes us less empathetic to the issue at hand and allows people to ignore it is more commonplace.

    -Young Christopher Walken looks like Scarlett Johansson

    – ask professor for specific things when requesting help with feedback. Ex. asking to help fortify punctuation or find more evidence

    – people don’t want their reputations tarnished, someone with more failures on their record most likely takes on the more difficult route than someone with only successes.

    -you make different arguments to different people depending on who they are and what you’re trying to argue.

    -quality and quantity of claims and their importance

    -we cannot actually say for sure that Caleb had a case worse than one of the 50,000 veterans. the claim that he had the second-worst score in the whole 18 county gulf course system which also has screened 50,000 veterans. the claim is manipulative at least and deceptive at worst.

    • davidbdale's avatar davidbdale says:

      There’s excellence lurking here, f8c. Let it shine.

      dehumanization of language that makes us less empathetic to the issue at hand and allows people to ignore it is more commonplace.

      —Months or years from now, this note will make no sense, but with a little tweak, like starting with “Shell Shock devolves into PTSD,” it will always bring back the moment.

      Young Christopher Walken looks like Scarlett Johansson

      —Sure, but, was that the point? If so, I did a bad job.

      people don’t want their reputations tarnished, someone with more failures on their record most likely takes on the more difficult route than someone with only successes.

      —Removing the doctors from this summary in an effort to generalize the lesson, as in the Shell Shock example, again makes it less effective as a Note.

      you make different arguments to different people depending on who they are and what you’re trying to argue.

      —You do, yes. And I do. We do. I haven’t told you this yet, but the first person plural is our preferred pronoun set for this class. Never YOU. To streamline, avoid pronouns altogether when YOU can. The imperative is good for that:

      “Make different arguments to different audiences depending on their prejudices and preferences.”

      quality and quantity of claims and their importance

      —Not a clue what this is about.

      we cannot actually say for sure that Caleb had a case worse than one of the 50,000 veterans. the claim that he had the second-worst score in the whole 18 county gulf course system which also has screened 50,000 veterans. the claim is manipulative at least and deceptive at worst.

      —Why can’t we say that his case was worse than 50,000 veterans’ cases? Because most of them never had a TBI, and some who did probably weren’t tested. We can say that “Brannan claims” that his score was the worst recorded by any vet in the 18 counties except for one. But we don’t know how many cases to compare his to.

      Grade 3/3

      Most of that was not a critique of your own work, figure8clementine, just general advice on note-taking. Is it ludicrous of me to dictate a note-taking style? Sure. But the purpose of a composition course is NOT to foster the broadest range of lawless writing approaches. It’s to focus young writers’ talents to “write to specifications.”

      A wide style range is still available even within constraints. In fact, the effort of adapting to constraint is how styles are formed.

      I like your angle. Use it to meet the needs of the assignment and I will LOVE your angle.

  8. taco491's avatar taco491 says:

    Class Notes: 10/07/24

    -Impossible trees visual riddle: The bigger idea is to present readers with all the material you want to give them in order to view your perspective in the view you want them to see it from. Force your reality on to them. This refers back to our writings because we want to persuade our readers to agree with our claims/ideas

    -Having a doppelgänger is not as uncommon as you think, even celebs are doppelgängers of each other, which is shown between Christopher Walken (at a younger age) and Scarlett Johansson. Professor thought he was the first one to figure this out and had a ahh-hat moment, but when looking it up he found out he was not the first one. To connect it back to our writing, make our readers have an ahh-haa moment, a realization, to make them believe your persuasion.

    -Don’t use words to provoke your credibility in your writing: what if, in my opinion, I believe, etc.

    -Make your writing feel like it is all factual in order to make your readers believe everything you are saying

    -If one wants to receive feedback faster, make a reply in said post you want feedback in stating the type of feedback you want

    -In writings, don’t summarize what an author stated, instead synthesis on it and create a new meaning in your own words

    -Claim Types:

    Aristotelian method: appeals to an audience’s reason, emotion, and sense of ethics/character; the specific names for these are logos, pathos, ethos. No claim is made

    Toulmin Model: Claim is made and supported with grounds (evidence). An argument is based on warrants (the values on which the argument rests).

    Rogerian Model: Finds similarities and solves shared problems. After this, then look on the opposite side at the differences of opinion and compare them with solutions in order to resolve differences.

    -If Amanda was making an argument to her parents about getting lassie surgery, she would use pathos to appeal to their emotions to get what she wants, but if she was arguing with her insurance she would most likely use logos in order to reason with them.

    -Make conversations in feedback cycles

    -Categorical Arguement due 10/15: 1,000 words

    • davidbdale's avatar davidbdale says:

      You squeaked out a 4 here, Taco, by being thorough and attentive in your responses. The bar will be set higher as the semester progresses, but you’re capable of better, so you’ll meet it.

      Let’s streamline your pronouns throughout your class writing. Other publications will require other styles, but OUR preferred pronouns are WE/OUR/OURS, which create camaraderie with our readers and avoid “taking sides.” So, instead of:

      —If one wants to receive feedback faster, make a reply in said post you want feedback in stating the type of feedback you want

      . . . which mixes up a bunch of approaches, try:

      —For faster feedback, we should reply to our own posts, stating the type of feedback we want.

      . . . and adopt that strategy universally for this course unless you’re pointedly addressing YOURSELF or ME, for example.

      Grade 4/3

  9. PRblog24's avatar PRblog24 says:

    Class Notes: 07 October

    • You should have a perspective that will shock your audience. 
    • You want your claim to be believable, as it should reflect your own opinion.
    • Do not use “I think” and other unnecessary notes when taking notes or making claims.
      • Include meaningful and important information that will be both useful and rememberable. 
    • Multiple different types of claims should be used in an argument to ensure all angles are being covered for the reader.
    • Certain audiences need certain ways of persuasion. 
    • There can be multiple claims found in one sentence and/or paragraph.
    • Using the comment section on WordPress allows for debate and conversation to further talk about topics.
    • There is always room for improvement in your writing. The first 1,000 does not need to be polished and can be worked upon.
    • davidbdale's avatar davidbdale says:

      Just a few syntax notes, PRblog:

      • Do not use “I think” and other unnecessary notes when taking notes or making claims.

      Wordy: unnecessary notes when taking notes

      Fix: Do not use “I think” or other qualifiers when making claims.

      • Include meaningful and important information that will be both useful and rememberable. 

      Wordy: meaningful and important information that will be both useful and rememberable

      Fix: Include information that is both useful and memorable.

      • Multiple different types of claims should be used in an argument to ensure all angles are being covered for the reader.

      Wordy: Multiple different types of claims should be used in an argument to ensure all angles are being covered for the reader.

      Fix: Mix up your claims to use all types of persuasion.

      Grade 3/3

  10. lil.sapph's avatar lil.sapph says:

    10/7

    • Got to class a little late (kerfuffle) 
    • Don’t talk about what the source says , or everything that this has information, tel the information instead 
    • Summarize specific matter that’s relevant. No need to talk about what youre going to do, just do it. 
    • Pathos logos ethos, insurance companies want logos don’t care about your emotions. Parents would be most likely to respond to pathos 
    • “finally” is an evaluative claim, as your saying that now it happened but it should have happened earlier
    • “severity of his tbi” comparative, not that he has it, but how much of it he has. 
    • Amount of veterans that had “better” scores was 500,000 but doesn’t really show how many he had.
    • Make sure to start researching so not behind for the next assignment. 
    • davidbdale's avatar davidbdale says:

      You caught up.

      A few observations:

      • “finally” is an evaluative claim, as your saying that now it happened but it should have happened earlier

      —Exactly, both factual and evaluative (even ethical; the hint is “should”).

      • “severity of his tbi” comparative, not that he has it, but how much of it he has. 

      —But also an “assumed” factual claim. We can’t compare his TBI to others’ if he doesn’t have it, so saying his is worse (comparative) includes saying he has some (factual).

      • Amount of veterans that had “better” scores was 500,000 but doesn’t really show how many he had.

      —NUMBER of veterans. If you can count them, the noun is a “count noun” and needs the work “number,” not “amount.” If you want to describe HOW MUCH brain injury they’ve suffered, that can’t be counted. “The 50,000 vets suffered a massive AMOUNT of TBI.”

      Grade 3/3

  11. Starfire04.blog's avatar Starfire04.blog says:

    10/7/24 class notes

    • you want the audience to understand and believe in your claim.
    • try to persuade your audience. using persuasive language will help captivate your audience and help your audience become interested in wanting to understand your claim.
    • language is extremely important!!
    • declare your claims
    • you should be using more than one types of claims in order give a good argument
    • being specific, giving relevant evidence to support your claims, persuasive language, declarative language, and overall a goods argument.
  12. loverofcatsandmatcha's avatar loverofcatsandmatcha says:

    10/07

    Visual Riddle

    • Altered the foundation to change the perception thus, defend his argument (the painting/what is really there)
    • In only 3000 words, can you change someone’s perspective?
      • YES. If the artist was able to do so much with so little space, why can’t you? Make the most out of every single word. 
      • You won’t be able to cover every single perspective, just like the artist was unable to cover every single vantage point when he created his art. Do what you can, but make every word worth it. Develop an ironclad, crystal clear essay.
      • “Force the reader into a singular perspective from which everything is to be interpreted.” (DH)

    ScarJo or Christopher Walken

    • It is difficult to be the first to an idea
    • Try to see things from a new perspective

    Writing Advice

    • Essays are not fact, but merely opinions
    • We do not have any credentials, so we must have strong research/sources to stand on
    • Write with confidence. Don’t be wishy-washy and “water down” your writing
    • Declare it. Don’t suggest it. 
    • Think back to the “ransom note” exercise: you want to create writing that serves PERSUASIVE, CONFIDENT PURPOSE
    • Do not use phrases like “I believe” “It seems to me” “In my opinion”
      • Can’t do it? Think of all your claims as factual or attributive claims. 

    Specific Claims

    • When describing sources, be SPECIFIC.
      • “This provides background” “this will give me necessary information” are not valuable statements to help you make sense of them later. More work now, less work later.
      • In the ACTUAL background section of your source description. Be thorough in the summary. 
      • “This compares two similar experiences.” WHY are they similar? Be specific so you don’t need to re-learn/re-read the entire source later
    • When done in a valuable, intentional way, the Proposal+5 will give you a strong foundation to build from, and it will lead to less potential scratchwork later. 

    Types of Arguments

    • Aristotle made appeals: Ethos (ethics, character, authority, endorsement), pathos (emotion), logos (logic)
    • Toulmin made claims: supported them with grounds (foundation) (aka evidence), based them on warrants (values on which argument rests), resting on backing (if you know, you know)
    • Rogers: common ground, shared problems. From there, looking at differences in opinion and the possible ways to resolve conflicts 
    • Not all claims need to be proved, not all claims require the same method of presentation
      • If you want Lasik, the way you present your argument will be different between your parents vs. the insurance company

    PTSD Claims

    • Not all claims are obvious. Some are hidden, so make note of every word, every phrase used. Dissect them to better understand an argument.
    • davidbdale's avatar davidbdale says:

      Stunningly good.

      Do not use phrases like “I believe” “It seems to me” “In my opinion”

      • Can’t do it? Think of all your claims as factual or attributive claims.

      You taught me something here, LOCAM. Treat all of your claims as factual may have been what I meant, but I don’t think it’s what I said. But I should have. And from now on, I will.

      Grade 5/3

  13. student1512's avatar student1512 says:

    NOTES:                                                                    

    10/7/24

    Visual Riddle:

    • Using our eyesight, the illusion uses our now twisted perception of their claim that the image is there, when in fact it’s not.
    • In just 3000, change people’s perception based on what you show, factual.
    • The image uses a specific perspective, forcing us to see what he wants us to see through his narrow perspective.
    • Job in 3000- force the reader into a singular perspective, in which everything can be interpreted.
    • Maintain such control that readers cannot see alternatives.

    Too Late to Meme: 

    • One may think their idea is original, yet one will find that their perspective has been thought of before, and proven.

    Writing Advice:

    • Arguable essay, based on my opinion. Counter intuitive.
    • My Authority: my research + authority of my voice
    • DO NOT reference “I” in the writing. No one cares, no one needs it.
    • Be factual, scratch the lead ins.
    • DECLARE.
    • Be concise. Your words matter, drive home point with little background for clarity.
    • State claims as IF they have been proven by science. Make a claim!

    Housekeeping-Feedback Please:

    • Leave a reply in the comment, type of critique you’d like to receive. Be specific for help.
    • Respond to Professors’ replies to generate more feedback.
    • Do not ask for more feedback until you respond to original feedback. One at a time.

    Specific Claims Demo:

    • “Talks about”, “deals with”, “provides background”, don’t use. They can all do that. Be specific. 
    • Most specific claims are better.

    The Lasik Claims:

    • Base most evidence on logic/facts/numerical evidence
    • Basics of logic and reasoning
    • Claim then ground (Evidence) then warrants (values argument rests)
    • Common ground is important.
    • Audience influences claims.
    • Choose an audience that something is at stake, using appropriate methods and evidence.
    • davidbdale's avatar davidbdale says:

      From the first, masterful explanation of the Visual Riddle, you establish your engagement with the material, Student1512.

      Here’s one note, though:

      DO NOT reference “I” in the writing. No one cares, no one needs it.

      It’s not the “I” that you need to repress. It’s statements of belief or opinion.

      Grade 4/3

  14. Burnbook04's avatar Burnbook04 says:

    Notes 10/7/24

    • perspective : build a case and have it be looked at from different angles.
    • too late to meme: most likely you aren’t the only one with a thought or idea
    • Independence: Start your claims as if they had been proven by science and a long tradition of universal acceptance.
    • base your argument on logic and evidence on facts> basics .claims rest on the grounds of evidence. miscarriage of justice -> we should override with ethical argument
    • Roger: we can agree on something even if opposite opinions ( no unwanted babies ) don’t want kids to suffer being unwanted.
  15. student12121's avatar student12121 says:

    Class Notes – 10/7/24

    A persuasive argument should force the reader into a singular perspective. The essay is not long enough to let the reader change their view multiple times. The essay must command their attention and force them into a singular point of view.

    Credibility is gotten through reasonable evidence. As an undergraduate student one has very little authority. Removing any of that authority is then very harmful. State your opinion as though it was fact. People understand that it is your opinion so stating that it is so is useless and undermines your credibility.

    An argument to everyone is effective for no one. The intended audience is vital when constructing an argument.

    Arguments that combine claim types and argument types (logos pathos ethos) are often the best and most convincing arguments.

  16. Robofrog's avatar Robofrog says:

    Class notes 10/7:

    Visual riddle: Changing perception to convince audience of what they are seeing, it is similar to trying to convince people of your argument in writing. force readers to see from your perspective only. Maintain control.

    Too late to meme: One can think their idea is original, only to find out it is not.

    Writing advice: counterintuitive means idea is not agreed by most people, creditability- don’t say it is your opinion, be firm, use only active verbs in opening statement, do not use believe or seems or my opinion.

    Housekeeping: Scholastic request, mechanical request, sequence request, source request.

    Specific claims demo: the intent is to share what is useful, don’t be too vague, explain why the source is useful,

    The Lasik Claims: Contains information on models of arguments- Aristotle – reason; Toulmin – 20th century; Roger – common grounds, sitting in the back; not all claims need to be proved, choose an audience that has a stake in claim,

    Assignments:

    Definition/Categorical Argument 10/15

    • davidbdale's avatar davidbdale says:

      Housekeeping: Scholastic request, mechanical request, sequence request, source request.

      I did a poor job of listing Feedback Types, RoboFrog. It’s not a formal checklist, actually, just a bit of advice about what sorts of critical reaction you’d welcome. I usually call them Argument/Rhetorical/Mechanical/Syntax, but you could ask for advice on the sequencing of your claims, or the aptness of the anecdote or illustration you chose, the persuasive value of your sources, whatever you think is weak about your draft.

      Grade 3/3

  17. pinkduck's avatar pinkduck says:

    Class Notes 10/07

    • Impossible tree riddle: Painting the trees is similar to a persuasive argument. The artist can make us see what we would like us to see, however when we see it in different angles it’s different.
    • Impossible tree riddle: Everything you say in your 3,000 word paper you want the reader’s full attention, you want them to see exactly what you want them to see. You don’t want them to go around the other sides of the “tree.”
    • You have to bring just enough of evidence from your fixed perspective.
    • Gold isn’t an actual color.
    • Writing advice: Never say “In my opinion,” “I believe,” “what if?,” “Don’t you think,” or “It seems to me…”
    • “You declare your independence.”
    • Don’t say that your source “talks about,” or “deals with” a broad topic, or that it “provides background.”
    • Rogers concentrated on finding areas of common grounds and solving shared problems.
    • Choose a method of argument based on who your audience is.
  18. Bruinbird's avatar Bruinbird says:
    • Notes: 10/07 9:30 am
      • Painting illusions
        • Sert perspective, present them a background you can blend against. Don’t let them wander, direct their focus to see your perspective how you want them to
      • When presenting the thesis, don’t undercut what little authority you have. Don’t call yourself a, simpleton, not an expert, don’t make it a white if, don’t phrase it as an opinion. Simply, begin with the theory. Instead of “What if x y z”, just go with “X y z, this is why.” Declare it, don’t suggest it.
      • You should be able to take out all but some necessary nouns and active verbs. Then you know you have something of a declaration.
      • State claims as if they had been proven before you bring them up. Never use “I believe” or “it seems to me” or anything similar. It’s not a belief, it’s truth.
      • REMEMBER TO GET FEEDBACK, but, y’know, make revisions
      • Be specific when talking about essential content
      • 250 words for each source, for 5 sources. That’s over 1000 words already. And, would likely be quite useful content for an article
      • Base arguments on logic or reason (logos. We’re talking ARISTOTLE BABYYY). Base evidence on facts or numbers. 
      • It is also possible to appeal to sympathy, emotional connection to the arguements (Pathos). Or could appeal to their ethics to agree, (Ethos)
      • Argue by not arguing. Figure out what we don’t WANT to argue about, to make the arguing easier
      • Can’t argue to everyone, instead. Pick an audience, and choose a method for your madness that makes sense for that audience.
      • Look at the chart to double check about having, Categorical, definitional, consequential, resemblance, evaluation, and proposal claims.
        • Resemblance is a powerful argument. If they agree with something, compare that to being similar to what you are trying to convince them on
      • There can be factual claims. Then they can also make statements about this claim that can be proven.
      • Words can manipulate based on the usage of certain numbers and words to guide / lead you to specific assumptions.
    • davidbdale's avatar davidbdale says:

      I appreciate that your Notes are refreshingly different, BruinBird.

      REMEMBER TO GET FEEDBACK, but, y’know, make revisions

      Also, y’know, good advice.

      One thing confuses me about the “end of period” Notes from almost everyone. The “there can be facts” that also make claims, etc. section, differently phrased but recurrent in your classmates’ notes. Makes me wonder what I actually said.

      Grade 4/3

  19. Andarnaurram's avatar Andarnaurram says:

    Class Notes- 10/7

    -The visual riddle can be seen as a persuasive argument as it makes people perceive a visual that is not truly there. In the essay we are meant to show our readers our perspectives as it blends with what the topic present. We force them into the perspectives and do not give readers time to think about alternatives. 

    • When writing a persuasive argument you declare your independence the authority you have is represented in your research and evidence. Saying like What if and In my opinion are not useful
    • You can claim self evidence and state claims as if they were proven 
    • Ask for feedback while writing and be specific 
    • The purposeful summary version allows essential content of the article and what it proves
    • Aristotle made logos, ethos, and pathos in his arguments using reason, emotions, and ethics 
    • Toulon made claims with grounds and warrants
    • Rogers found common ground and solved shared problems in his writing
    • Thesis is the first claim followed by smaller claims then the conclusion
    • Each claim is subject to a challenge so it is necessary to make the best type of claim one can
    • PTSD claims: many claims have factual claims but also have ethical claims that are often hidden or obvious
  20. iloveme5's avatar iloveme5 says:

    Class notes 10/7/24- iloveme5

    • Visual riddle impossible trees: What does it have to do with persuasive argument ? One could persuade someone that it is an actual tree or change the perception of what is actually there. To persuade you have to force your reader into a perspective to one singular side so they can’t see to the left to right. They are only seeing what you want them to see.
    • I wonder if I would fall for something like that when i’m out at a park OR if ive already walked by one and didn’t notice.
    • Writing advice: The authority that we have for our own credibility is our own research. “In my opinion” is not a good way to start. Neither is “what if” “I believe” “It seems to me” These examples are not a good way to start because my essay by definition is already reflects my personal opinion.
    • Declare independence of your claim and have authority.
    • Feedback from professor and specifying what feedback you’d like.
    • Not appropriate to say that my source “talks about” or “provides background”
    • BE SPECIFIC: I am guilty of this when sharing my research articles. I guess Its hard to word it before I introduce my research article.
    • Starting to correctly craft language for our papers.
    • I would much rather go with someone who has a perfect success rate lol I would be too nervous to of with someone who hasn’t had a great success rate.
    • Want to base most of your evidence on facts/logic (logos)
    • Can also appeal to sympathy of your readers (pathos)
    • You must use the method which is best for that audience.
    • PTSD claim advice some claims are hidden the others are obvious.
    • If critical of your sources you have to be alert and precise.
    • davidbdale's avatar davidbdale says:

      Solid work, ILoveMe5.

      BE SPECIFIC: I am guilty of this when sharing my research articles. I guess Its hard to word it before I introduce my research article.

      Fortunately, no draft is final, ILM. Revise those summaries at any time. Eventually, the Proposal+5 (by the time it’s +10 or more) will be part of your Portfolio as your Annotated Bibliography. Best to start thinking about it as a Portfolio assignment already.

      Grade 3/3

  21. pineapple488's avatar pineapple488 says:

    Class notes:

    • By painting a section of the trees, the man is able to change the perspective of the image, but only through a fixed angle. When the perspective of the image changes, the viewer see’s it differently. When writing a persuasive argument, you have to force the reader into one perspective by only allowing them to see what you want them to.
    • Essay is not full of factual claims, because if it was it would not be counterintuitive and there would be no point.
    • Never say “in my opinion,” “I believe,” etc.
    • Since you don’t already have credibility, you need to make strong, declarative claims to make people believe your argument.
    • Declaration > weak suggestion
    • You can claim that things are self evident and leave it to the readers to object as long as you don’t claim things are proven by science if they aren’t.
    • Indicate the type of feedback you would like to receive on your post.
    • Do not say that sources that your sources “provide background” or “give you information to prove your thesis.” All sources should do this. Instead, describe specifically what the source says and how you plan to use it.
    • Aristotle: appeals to audience’s reason, emotions, and senses of ethics, character, and authority.
    • Toulmin: claims supported with grounds and based on warrants
    • Rogers: finding common ground, solving shared problems
    • You make different arguments depending on who your audience is. For example, your parents vs. your insurance company, your parents care about what you want, your insurance company only cares about what benefits them.
    • Combining resemblance with categorical claims is very persuasive.
    • Be wary of how things are worded, authors can manipulate you easily if you aren’t paying close attention.
  22. Who'sOnFirst?'s avatar Who'sOnFirst? says:

    10/07 class notes

    • To convince someone in your argument you should keep them on track and not allow them to look at it from another perspective. The only other perspective they should see it from is the one that you will then disprove in acknowledging the other side in your essay.
    • Don’t suggest your independence (argument) using statements like “I believe” or “In my opinion” we already know that this paper is your opinion, you don’t need to tell us. Declare your independence (opinion) and then you can focus on proving it.
    • Rodgers found common ground in his arguments, sort of a peacemaker, in favor of not arguing so that from there we can work on solving those common ground issues.
    • Knowing your audience is vital because you are able to find what’s at stake and cater your argument towards them.
    • Be wary of claims rather than just taking them at face value because they can often manipulate you into agreeing with certain conclusions.
  23. GamersPet's avatar GamersPet says:

    Artist and writers are similar to each other from the visual riddle of the impossible tree because of the methods to capture their audience. Both artists and writers have the same concept of trying to get their audience’s attention by manipulating their point of view. The goal was to gather the audience to the same level as what the author is trying to present.

    Never have a weak declaration of the starting point of what ifs or in my opinion in a persuasive essay because it would make the audience bias, and doubtful of what you’re getting at. Making it stronger and powerful claims by stating your factual beliefs can bring the readers attention to that topic. The audience have different needs and expectations from their writers if the writers wanted to grab their audience attention.

    Shortcut instructions of how to get feedback faster is by simply leaving a reply under the post. To get more feedback is by replying back to the previous feedback.

    Understanding what a purpose summary should be instead of saying what the topic is about. It’s by stating what is the whole subject of the article by summarizing the specific matters of the subject at hand.

    • davidbdale's avatar davidbdale says:

      Almost, GamersPet.

      get their audience’s attention by manipulating their point of view.

      Manipulating the point of view is not so much about getting attention; its purpose is to provide such a fixed perspective that readers have only your explanation to choose from.

      Grade 3/3

  24. Bagel&Coffee's avatar Bagel&Coffee says:

    This class was deep. It was on the edge of my comfort zone. This must be how Luke Skywalker felt training with a light saber while having his eyes covered. And just like Luke, I have found myself getting zapped in this endeavor: Persuasion. I can visualize our instructor smiling like Obi-Wan Kenobi as he watches our progress (*cough* struggle).

    Different people require different kinds of “persuasion tactics” in order to be receptive to your viewpoint. There is a kind of magic in the classroom that makes things so intuitive about this, that seems to stump me while piloting in real life. I have had such a struggle to induce behavioral change in people (see annoying, rude, or controlling), that I have looked to animal behavioral training for inspiration. If mastered, the art of persuasion could prove to change everything.

    “This is your opportunity to have your audience to see the world as you do, you must consider the perspective of where your audience is and where they must be to see what you want. You don’t let them see the world from their reality, you force your reality…you tell them why you can’t see any other perspective; you bring them back to your perspective.” This is self-explanatory and I will probably wirte on a sticky note and frame it up in my bedroom.

    Another way to look at this is framing, which is a way you edit things, or put things side by side. There was a group of psychologists who actually pioneered this into their therapy to treat patients. I believe Richard Bandler is considered the grandfather of them. One example I remember, was with an extreme clean-a-holic, who after treatment behaved differently, because her therapist framed “a reasonable amount of mess”/ “a little bit of mess” as a good thing, because that would mean her family finally came home, and being surrounded by family is comforting. The original association of dirt at the front door causing anxiety was broken and now framed as a reassuring or calming stimuli.

    If that is not persuasive, I don’t know what is!

    George Carlin was presented as well. Why? Well, before that let me enlighten you that humor and satire is very, very, persuasive! Now, although we will not be studying humor as a way to bypass people’s guards around beliefs, we will be looking at “the power of names”. That is closely analyzing words for implicit bias or abstractness in order to achieve a goal. Geroge carlin specifically argues (does standup comedy) that if we would have kept the word “shell shock” more would have been done for our veterans that came back from war with psychological scars.

    The other thing that comes to mind was the “War on Terror’s enhanced interrogation techniques”, or at least that is how government lawyers preferred to abstract the phrase it at the time. Opposing lawyers called it torture. The representatives of American intelligence agencies argued that it wasn’t torture; conventual torture would be something like banging someone’s head against the wall, meanwhile we (they) give prisoners a helmet to protect them before proceeding to bang their head against a wall. Clearly different, clearly “enhanced”, clearly not torture, clearly just “interrogation”.

    Christopher Walkin. Does he look like scarlet Johansson? Yea, I don’t see it. Btu not important. What is important is that lightbulb moment our instructor is trying to let us experience. We have all had that “Eurika!” moment before, and he hopes we have it again while we are doing our thesis; a moment of clarity of what approach or path we will home in on.

    Do not use “What if…”, “It seems to me…”, “I believe…”, because we must learn that we are declaring a fact or set of facts in our hypothesis. Imagine if the Declaration of Independence was written as a suggestion to King George III. It would be laughable! further evidence that we must lean into our lesson and declare, assert, and claim our way through our work.

    Important bullet point: “Our creditability is what we say that sounds right.” Another wall worthy quote. Keeping this in mind in our work should be important.

    “I would like you at all times to never say what we ‘talk about’ “. It is important to not use the phrasing “talks about” because it does not help us recall things later. as well as if we are more specific and summarize with a purpose.

    For example, “We talked about a tree.” Not good.

    When we write, when we are to incorporate the material from other writers, do not just summarize them. Tell us what about things that will specifically influence your readers. “Synthesize what you learned with that you know into a new meaning.” (Another quote to get frame up in an exhibit.)

    Do not say “X talks about…” or “Y will give you the necessary information to prove…”, because this is a prime example of a bad referential which does not enlighten the reader and tells them nothing of use. While this seems like a lot of add-ons to keep in mind, I think they will all overlap in practice.

    Next topic: Different archetypes of arguments; using Aristotle
    Rodgers and Toulmin “styles of writing”. This is huge and I can’t make any reasonable notes on this as I have not read about these men and their strategies used in writing. What I have gleamed in class, is that these structures of writing were highly impactful, and we can look to for making a solid case of something. “Copying is the best flattery”, and sometimes and easy way to make huge leaps in writing strength.

    Definitions to know:

    Pathos– meaning making an emotional appeal to your arguments or persuasion.
    Logos– meaning logic appeal to your arguments or persuasion.
    Ethos– meaning using ethics appeal to your arguments or persuasion.

    Claims types are varied and many. Here are a few:

    Categorical
    Definitional
    Consequential
    Resemblance
    Evaluation
    Proposal

    More can be found here: Claims Task: PTSD | Counterintuitive Fall 2024 (rowancomp2.com)

    We should try to imitate the graph here: claim-types-sp18.pdf (rowancounterintuitive.com) in regard to our own thesis, in order to spot holes in our work.

    I have learned that I believe that my thesis will be of the “consequential” category. According to the document (claim-types-sp18.pdf (rowancounterintuitive.com), “Does X cause Y?”, seems to be very close to my claim. or ” (X) priming a person, will cause (Y) them to experience something they otherwise would not.” I should work out a graph later in excel to check myself.

  25. KFury205's avatar KFury205 says:

    10/7

    1.Starts with a metaphor on impossible trees, trees painted with a piece of paper wrapped around it on one side and painted to make art of the other side on it.Making it look different from a point of view.The teacher is trying to show us how we need to make our readers see our point of view and shape their ways of looking at a topic, a fun way to instill that message on us and great advice nonetheless.

    2.Talks on how to water down your writing when making a argumentative essay or thesis of some kind.He explains how would that insinuate that your not sure about this idea or how your voicing you opinion or thought is unnecessary and just drags what your trying to say.The audience should already know that this is a thesis and that everything the writer says has to be sound of facts and not last second thoughts the writer is scared of writing.

    • First 1000 word argument summary is open to receiving Feedback to help with phrasing, citing and little problems need fixing

    3. Begins to talk on how to essentially cut out the middle man in a way by trying to describe a purposeful experience without using “Talks About”, saying that it is describing what an unknown and unnecessary third party is talking on the topic but not getting the writers real facts and understanding of the topics the audience is looking to read about.

    • Puts up two examples of the difference in phrasing when it comes to to just taking out “Talks about”.
    • The first example has the usage and it just looks less coherent and to simplicitic on such a heavy topic, it just seems like the reader was looking for easy answer.
    • The Second example on the other hand had a very understandable and well formed simple summary that makes the writer out as someone who read through the article he talks about and is able to provide reliable information on it and is willing to write on its topic.

    These two examples show how some writer may find an easy way out of trying to explain their info that just makes their evidence and claim just unspectacular, and makes the writer seem less able.Also as if he more breezed by the article he was researching than actually reading it through and wanting the audience to experience what he read through as well.

  26. davidbdale's avatar davidbdale says:

    Very thorough, KFury!

    Grade 3/3

  27. phoenixxxx23's avatar phoenixxxx23 says:

    Class Notes- phoenixxxx23

    Build Credibility Without Explicit Claims

    -Avoid phrases that undermine your authority, like “in my opinion” or “what if.” Instead, present your writing as fact-based to foster belief in your assertions.

    -The audience expects a thesis to be backed by solid facts, not hesitant or half-formed thoughts from a writer unsure of themselves.

    Enhance Feedback Responses

    To expedite feedback, it’s helpful to specify the type of input you seek directly in your post.

    Synthesis Over Summary

    In your writing, focus on synthesizing ideas rather than merely summarizing them. Aim to create new meanings in your own words.

    Listen for additional researchable ideas not mentioned in your thesis

    If you hit a paywall, check Campbell Library.

    Knowing your audience is VITAL because it helps you see what’s crucial and relevant to them and adjust your argument to connect better.

    -Be careful with claims and don’t just accept them as true, since they can lead you to wrong conclusions.

  28. MAD ClTY's avatar MAD ClTY says:

    The tree riddle provides a insight to writer that we are writing to a reader that or perceptive is just that our so with just an angle change you break the illusion rather we focus on the importance of writing a piece. Like making a piece of art.

    Well to start off we have building a stronger claim. In the example for Lasik Surgery Amanda proposes to her parent on why she get the surgery, but this won’t work for insurance company. For the insurance company I believe that Consequential Claims would work the best it will. provide on with the issue with glasses and how to seek mutual benefit

    Do better Research provides real examples from peer on how Proposal +5 should look like then moving into how the professor. Shows way to do better researching by providing step by step way to look at source that were found. As well as looking into source like Library for some addition sources.

    Good Hypothesis is builds of the claims of an opinions which can build in success counter examples. The Give Directly Hypothesis provides a good counter point to why not give them money, which in theory sounds awful, but I believe author provides good counter claims which provide good insight. Like your hypothesis doesn’t need to be fully sound, but as long as it can stand with its claim you can make a valid augment

    Sorry for being late

    • davidbdale's avatar davidbdale says:

      Nice work, MadCity. Your evolving English is not easy to understand, but with effort I can decipher your intentions. You’ll want to be early, not late, with your Portfolio arguments because we’re going to need time to revise your drafts for fluency. I’ll be patient and helpful, but you’ll have to take charge of the schedule to make time for several revision cycles.

      Grade 3/3

  29. Mongoose449's avatar Mongoose! says:

    Mongoose Notes – 10/9/2024

    • The riddle is there not to show how something doesn’t exist, that it was removed. It’s to show how you change the perspective in which someone can view your writing and view the point you are trying to highlight the importance of. You can use the reader insight to make sure they see the perspective you want them to see, while not truly changing anything and having their opinion be shaped by what you show.
    • Using authority and conviction, you procure confidence in the information you attempt to get across. People will listen to those who sound like they know what they are talking about, even if they are in the same boat as the reader. You must make yourself sound bold and convincing yet keeping away from opinion or attempting to disprove something.
    • Your essay is not facts, it’s entirely an opinion, but that is not what you’re trying to convince the reader of. You must use language that also persuades them to find your opinion correct. Your claim has to use specific parts of sources that support exactly what you’re saying, and how it would support the opinion you’re attempting to get across.
    • Don’t use “Talks About”, it doesn’t provide clear information from the source, as you’re paraphrasing something that doesn’t need to be paraphrased, as you’re using your perspective to use the source.
    • If you use your source in a bad way, you can easily portray that your source is either unimportant, or that you yourself aren’t a convincing writer by breezing through and not correctly using the sources you chose.
  30. SkibidySigma's avatar SkibidySigma says:

    Class Notes 10/7

    • Visual Riddle: Impossible Trees – Persuasion through fixed perspective. The artist paints from one angle, forcing viewers to see only what he intends. Similarly, in writing, control perspective so readers interpret your argument as intended without straying.
    • Strong Claims – Avoid “in my opinion” or “it seems to me.” Instead, state ideas confidently as facts. These qualifiers weaken authority and don’t add credibility. Example: Don’t write “What if dogs suffer more separation anxiety?” Write: “Dogs adopted during COVID are more likely to suffer separation anxiety.”
    • Structure for Persuasion – Maintain reader’s focus on a single perspective, blocking out alternatives until appropriate to address counterarguments. Control the flow, introducing rebuttals only when strategically beneficial.
    • “Too Late to Meme” Story – Professor realized his discovery of young Christopher Walken looking like Scarlett Johansson wasn’t new. This example illustrates missed moments for unique arguments and the importance of finding original angles.
    • Feedback – For feedback prioritization, respond on your own post specifying the type of feedback needed. Don’t request feedback on grammar if foundational arguments need improvement.
    • “Talks About” – Be specific in source summaries. Avoid vague phrases like “talks about” or “provides background.” Describe specific arguments or examples that directly support your thesis.
    • Toulmin Model – Uses claims backed by evidence (grounds) and values (warrants). Example: Arguing for DNA testing to exonerate prisoners involves ethical warrants around justice.
    • Rogerian Argument – Builds common ground before addressing disagreements, reducing conflict and focusing on shared goals. Example: Agreeing that reducing unwanted pregnancies prevents many social issues, then focusing on methods.
    • Audience-Specific Appeals – Tailor arguments based on audience values. Example: Ask parents for Lasik by appealing to emotion (pathos), while appealing to insurance with medical necessity (logos).
    • Claims Examples:
      • Categorical: Defining whether something belongs in a certain category (e.g., “Lasik is safe”).
      • Consequential: Arguing cause-effect relationships.
      • Resemblance: Comparing to familiar situations (e.g., Lasik as an “advanced version of glasses”).
      • Evaluation: Making judgments, such as “Lasik is worth the investment.”
      • Proposal: Suggesting a course of action (e.g., “Parents should pay for Lasik due to health benefits”).
    • PTSD Claims Example – Dissecting claims like “second-worst score” by analyzing each detail for ethical, factual, and comparative elements.
    • Upcoming Assignment Reminder – Definition/Categorical Argument (1,000 words) due next week. Will explore this structure in detail during the next class.

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